Sign on SAF

thecakeisalie

Well-Known Member
2 Jun 2011
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What SAF offers to its Regulars:
1. Higher-than-market-rate base salary
2. Bonuses based on internal & external audits
3. Lump sum reward after fulfilling service
4. Education scholarships
5. Courses to advance in your career (Military training, Warfighter course, etc.)
6. Fancy ranks
7. Free car

What you may not know:
1. Pathetic increments over the years. My 55 y.o. CSM earns around $2.7k. Amazing...

2. Audits are usually handled by NSFs. In my unit, we usually get a C or D grade. Haha!

3. Lump sum "reward" actually goes into your untouchable CPF account

4. Should you OOC from your university programme, you'll have to pay back every cent for your own laziness to study. Uni modules are not cheap at all.

5. Military experience is WORTHLESS in applying for civilian jobs. How will you earn good money if you leave the SAF after 5 years?

6. Really? Does that crab or chevron look that great? Nope, it's sole purpose is merely to intimidate NSFs.

7. You don't get to choose your favourite Audi or Jaguar. My OC and RQ both drive Toyota Wish. Coincidence? I think not.
 

fooledbyrandom

Active Member
11 Jun 2011
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Is this a copy pasta from somewhere or u typed it all out?

anyway, point 5 is too extreme; it really depends on many factors.
 

justified

Active Member
1 Oct 2011
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no organization is perfect. every organization would want the best talent -,- no one forces u to sign on.. of course the regulars would have agreed to the terms and conditions before they pick up the pen and sign.
 

kr3w

Well-Known Member
1 Aug 2011
330
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if you are planning to sign on, the 7 points thecakeisalie listed above shd never be the main objective or driving force behind the decision to sign. Those are just some of the little benefits, never the main reward. When u sign, u r pledging your service to the nation, to protect your country. It is a sacrifice and I think is a very noble thing indeed. If u signed on because of anything else, then I'm afraid u will not find fulfillment in your work there.
 

kr3w

Well-Known Member
1 Aug 2011
330
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Sorry to hear about your dad's case. I agree with you that that's a serious issue going on now.. i am not in a position to comment

Regarding defense, if everyone thinks like that, then who is going to defend our country, our families?
 

prosu

Well-Known Member
4 Jun 2011
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1. Pathetic increments over the years. My 55 y.o. CSM earns around $2.7k. Amazing...


7. You don't get to choose your favourite Audi or Jaguar. My OC and RQ both drive Toyota Wish. Coincidence? I think not.
I don't think u shd be judging a person by his paycheck or the car he drives. that's a very narrow mindset.
 

DIEHVRDS

Active Member
2 Jun 2011
185
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In Her ♥
I have no idea how this thread came from a "what will you get if you sign on" thread to a "foreign talents" thread.

Anyway I was a Combat engr 3SG in the SAF (ORD LOH!) and i find that most of the points brought out in the first post are flawed, and for one or two cases creates a wrong impression of signing on.In my opinion, signing on are for those who do not know what to do with their lives, or for those who damn siao army.

for Point 1, if your CSM is 55 years old, and he is still a CSM and only drawing 2.7k. Something is very wrong, and I would think that you do not have the full picture or the perfect information to that statement.Furthermore, the sample size is too small for your statement, and you only showed the very one extreme end.

For Point 4, any respectable organization would expect their scholars to excel in their studies, and of course, if the scholars were to be lazy, as you mentioned, the organization would then expect the scholars to return every cent that they have wasted. So this is not only applicable to the Army but to all other scholarships offering organizations. thus, using this point as a demerit indicator for the Army is invalid.

For point 5, Courses to advance your career. how is that a bad point? your further elaboration is as out of point as a golden unicorn climbed over my keyboard to reach the mountain of forgotten crocodiles. It is justified that when someone sign on, they would expect army to be their career, and since courses like warfighter, ACSB or even Ranger, are major indicators of how capable you are the army. Thus the army do provides courses for you to advance your career path as a soldier.
your elaboration is another point all together. the question of whether your 5 years stint in the army will bring you any benefits should you choose to look for greener pastures after your contract. Benefits the army will bring you after you decide to end the contract are numerous, however small they might be. They include People management skills, communication skills, ability to handle tough and stressful situation, and the list goes on.
you might say that all these skills are bullshit, but then again, it is how you make of your time spent anywhere and what do you want to take away after wasting that few years. (you might have strengthen these skills in the army unknowingly)

For point 6. seriously? Fancy rank? it's like saying a job will guarantee you candies. I do not think (then i could totally be wrong) that anyone signed on so that they can get a few chevrons or crabs .

lastly, Point 7, Free Car is only offered to you if your rank and position is high enough (CSM and OC are company level positions, so they are probably not high enough, RSM and CO is definitely high enough). There are only 2 type of civilian cars for this free car scheme, the FORD and the AUDI (or is there also the MERCS?) which are commonly sighted in singapore. From what i understand, WOSPECs are not included in the better car scheme, so your WOSPEC OC and CSM will not be applicable for the higher grade free cars, but only allowed a FORD. of course, all these vehicles come with the MID number plate, so many people think it to be shameful or might create the wrong impression if they are found to be driving around a MID OUV.

I do not like serving the nation anymore than you do (this assumption i draw from your post), but i understand the necessity of drafting all males to serve.
I do not like the foreign talents anymore than most people do, but i too understand the necessity of these people in singapore.


please pardon this long post, and any grammatical errors that I might have committed :)
 

rAWr

Active Member
4 Sep 2011
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well said DIEHVRDS, on your take on signing on.

I agree on the necessity of foreign talents in singapore. It is a double edged sword and when coming to justifying a balance, it is a real challenge. pleasing everyone would be impossible and some singaporeans will inevitably suffer the negative drawbacks of the foreign influx.
 

gosu_smurf

Senior Member
7 Jun 2011
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I'm saying there's probably a small 'list' of vehicles to choose from as a long-term service regular, and that's why these regulars don't have much choice.
Of course you can't expect the military to be buying u a porsche man.. :D the cost has to be justified. Also, they always have a choice. Regulars are free to buy their own car for personal use, need not stick to using the military vehicle. Many of them do this.
 

DIEHVRDS

Active Member
2 Jun 2011
185
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In Her ♥
I'm sorry but here's a quick response, though your reply to my post should garner a more thought out and longer response. I'll deal that out tomorrow, need to go rush through a book and sleep soon.

With regards to your rebuttal on point number 5. say I'm looking through your CV, and i see all your army courses, irrelevant to your applied jobs requirements, I would totally not hire. (You missed my point in your rebuttal.)
What I am saying is. If you're applying for a job, you do not add something of irrelevance to your application (in this case,all your army courses), it's like applying for University admission using your scouts capabilities. totally off. however, if the pass regulars would add items like...

Held a rank of 3Warrant officer Logistics in the SAF
- Excel in Logistics Management, in charged of indention of every items in a 500 man strong unit. (includes events he have manged logistics for and all...)
- Well-versed in Human Management, took charged of the discipline, regimentation and safety of the unit.

Definitely, he would have looked more relevant then ...

Held a 3Warrant Officer logistics in the SAF
-participated in WARFIGHT (HURRAH!) , RANGER (30 days singapore, 30 days USA) and many courses.
-took part in 40 NDPS as a Parade CSM, PARAAAADDDDDEEEEE SERDDDDIIIIIIII~ YAAAAAAAh!

not impressive at all, and it is the person own fault if he fail to specify what he have took away from the time in the army. the latter is what you proposed most people would emphasized on if they were to look for a job after their 5 years army stint. correct me if i'm wrong.
i'm sorry for such a short reply for now, as i have a book to read.
later :)
 
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DIEHVRDS

Active Member
2 Jun 2011
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In Her ♥
ok now for my actual reply.

firstly, for point 1, i don't see it as a increment problem (though the increment with respect to rank is little) buti view your sample as a promotion problem. Why do I say so? A MSG pay should be around 2.7k to 2.8k (i know cause my MSG shared this infomation with us, telling us why we shouldn't sign on), that is normal. However, what is not normal in your issue, is that your MSG is 41yearsold. This is definitely a promotion problem not a increment problem. Secondly with respect to both of your older superiors drawing such a low salary (55 yo and 63 yo) i have no explanation for that (though they definitely should know why are they drawing such a low salary as compared to other army peers their age, and just because they don't share that with you, you shouldn't assume that it's the SAF system's fault). so as i was saying, my only explanation (with whatever army experience i have) is because their employment scheme is different to that of the schemes of regulars today.
Now on the increment issue. this can be viewed from a million viewpoints, on the increment of the saf regular pay with respect to their rank.
Is the regular a man,a WOSPEC or a Officer?
generally speaking, a man and wospec pay structure sucks, with pay raise with upranking. However, for a Officer's pay, their rank rise according to "time", and the amount raised is with respect to the education level/type of degree the officer is holding. This is why i said your sample size is too small. You only gave 3 examples of the older generation WOSPECs. If say you were to include other information about regular Corporals, Captains etc, your argument could be strengthen.

for point 4, What i am saying is that , it is perfectly normal for the organization to request that the scholar return the full amount of money he had wasted. If you're the organization offering scholarships, you would of course only want the brightest and most hardworking young blood, and these young blood are bounded by the scholarship contract if they choose to accept the scholarship. Also, since you're the organization offering free education for the young blood, you would want to actually benefit from these young blood's valuable inputs to your organization. So, actually i do not understand your example of the 2 navy guy talking about their mutual friend, who decided to pangseh his scholarship, with relevance to my previous post. and thecakeisalie ,what's wrong with Scholarships offering organizations?

errrm point number 5 is explained already. so if you still have any doubts about point number 5, please feel free to raise them.

you can argue that one of the reason for rank is so that they could intimidate dominate and even confuse NSFs, but i do not agree with you on the word choice. for me, the rank helps facilitate command and control.
command. If there's no rank, and everyone is equal, then who will listen to anyone. everyone will have their own ideas and no wars will be won, in fact nothing productive would be done.
control. if there's no rank, who have the responsibility to ensure things are carried out, who is going to actually carry these things out?
your example is just this very one time where some one f you for not respecting the rank, he could be a 3 sgt and he would have the same right to f you just because you didn't greet him. thus, the idea of him being a 3wo is just so that you could use it as an excuse for your ideal that the regular ranks are to screw nsfs like you up.
The reason he sung to you was because you did not follow instructions, we were taught since tekong to greet any superiors we meet, in the extreme cases in tekong, we "diam" the entire parade square just to greet one time officer during water parade or other random events. So you cannot blame the rank for singing to you cause you didn't follow one of the most basic instructions.

ok, i don't understand your stayout journey relevance to the usage of rank, the picture and the "notice the word "diploma"" at all. what are you saying?

for point 7. obviously you do no know about the free military vehicle in the SAF, and i would not assume myself to be an expert on this topic either.
this must be a joke about the similar colour toyota, because the SAF don't gives out free toyotas. and whatever similar colour your OC and CSM wants to choose for themsleves is pretty much their problem and free will.
MID are the last 3 letters at the end of car license plate. Free vehicles only includes FORD , AUDI and maybe MERC (can't rmb merc). If your CSM and OC drives a TOYOTA, they are not FREE vehicles because they probably didn't qualify for them, or they are too ps to drive the ford home (if it's possible) . i think there's the this scenario where the army will subsidize your whip. and that's about all that i know of FREE cars in the army.

I'm terribly sorry if i sounded angry or portrayed any other negative emotions.
oh also, pardon me once again for my grammar mistakes (if any, hopefully not, but anyhow...)
thanks :)
 

pitdog

Active Member
25 Jul 2011
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the MID vehicles are not free ffs. it's paid for using the taxpayers' hard earned $.
 

msnangersme

Well-Known Member
1 Jun 2011
436
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Singapore
just because he screw u for not greeting him then u call him "pathetic"?

got hear of not greeting superiors and get weekend guard duty as punishment?

the warrant is doing his job to upkeep discipline. a slacker would not even bother scolding u, or might not have the balls to scold ppl. that is what i call pathetic.
 

kr3w

Well-Known Member
1 Aug 2011
330
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I agree that "wospec pay structure sucks." That's why I look down on these losers. Signing on under the EWOS scheme totally sucks.
I cannot disagree more with u on this.

Firstly, u need a mindset change. srs. Stop judging people based on their salaries. So what if the pay is low? does that mean u look down on him/her? If an abled person is earning a living the proper way and not stealing, etc, he deserves my respect. Please, you need to change your view.

You never know what is the real reason why a person signed on to that scheme. So stop passing petty judgements. If you think the scheme is bad, don't sign up for it and keep such opinions to yourself.
 

kr3w

Well-Known Member
1 Aug 2011
330
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thecakeisalie u say u judge people by knowledge. So are u saying if someone is very lowly educated, he doesnt deserve your respect?

*shakes head*